31--[DBY] Where to find lists of Doctors and Surgeons, Derbyshire
I recently received this from The Royal College of Surgeons of England in
response to a query.
The Library of the Royal College of Surgeons of England was established in
1828 to support the information needs of the Fellows of the College and
trainee surgeons. As a private Library we are not open to the general
public and the only exceptions to this are visiting scholars who make
appointments to view the rare books and manuscripts to aid them in their
Our collections of Medical Directories and Medical Registers are in a very
fragile state and therefore can only be consulted by the Library staff,
because of this past practice has been to encourage people to write in with
their genealogical enquiries and NOT to appear in person.
Whilst we recognise the needs of genealogists, we have been finding that the
rising popularity of family history and genealogy is placing an increasing
burden on us which we simply do not have the resources to deal with.
In view of this we are now charging for this service and, ask that those who
wish us to go ahead with research please forward a cheque for £15.00 made
out to the Royal College of Surgeons of England. The following needs to be
borne in mind
(a) we may not necessarily come up with much information UNLESS the ancestor
was a Fellow of the College (thus described as FRCS),
(b) our records go back to 1800 (apart from the examination books which
merely state the date of passing and town of residence back to 1745)
(c) the earliest Medical Directory is 1845
(d) the Society of Apothecaries used also to licence surgeons
(e) there is a backlog on these enquiries of around two months.
We have found from past experience that many of the enquiries we receive
could equally well be answered by using resources held elsewhere.
· The Library of the Wellcome Institute for the History and Understanding
is open, free, to the public and is sited, conveniently, at 183, Euston
Road, London NW1 2BE Tel:0207 611 8582
· For those who have access to the internet:
- A good starting point is http://www.genuki.org.uk/.
- A very useful website is the Wellcome Institute for the History of
Medicine at http://www.wellcome.ac.uk / - a "name as subject" search will
give you references to BMJ and Lancet obituaries and other biographical
- The Society of Genealogists is at http://www.sog.org.uk/
- The Guildhall Library is at
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/search_guildhall (or e-mail
- The NRA list on the Historic Manuscripts Commission site at
- The Public Record Office at http://www.pro.gov.uk/.
· A useful booklet available from the Society of Genealogists is Records of
the Medical Profession by Susan Bourne and Andrew H. Chicken, published in
1994, priced at £3.00.
· Should you require the services of a professional genealogist, we
recommend that you contact the Association of Genealogists and Record Agents
(AGRA), who can provide you with a list of accredited members (cost £2.50 by
post) - write to: Mrs. D. Young, Secretary, AGRA, Badgers Close, Horsham,
West Sussex RH12 5RU.
· The following publications (often available in larger public libraries and
medical school libraries) are also a good starting point for general medical
- Medical Register - 1859 to date
- Medical Directories - 1845 to date
- Munk's Roll published by the Royal College of Physicians of London
- Both the British Medical Journal and The Lancet publish obituaries
· In addition, information on Fellows of the Royal College of Surgeons of
England can be found in the publication Plarr's Lives of the Fellows of The
Royal College of Surgeons of England. This covers Fellows who died between
1843 and 1996.
32--[DBY] Derbyshire Directories
On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:07:01 -0000, Patrisia wrote:
>I have been following with interest your recent postings using a
>variety of directories, you seem to have a very comprehensive
>collection. As a comparative newcomer, may I ask your opinion on
There have already been some good answers from others on the List.
Directories are limited to two types of people:-
(1) Gentry and clergy.
(2) Professional and Trades people, with their own businesses, eg:
Attornies, Beerhouses, Butchers, Cow Keepers, Curriers, Drapers,
Engineers, Farmers, Framework Knitters, Gardeners, Grocers, Hatters,
Hosiers, Inns & Taverns, Joiners, Lace-makers, Milliners, Nail Makers,
Plumbers, Quarry Owners, Rope Makers, Shoemakers, Shopkeepers,
Tailors, Tallow Chandlers, Watch Makers, etc.
They do NOT cover people who work within such businesses (like Shop
Assistants or Apprentices), or General Labourers, Miners, or Ag Labs.
Pigot's earlier Commercial Directories do not even include *Farmers*,
but later ones do.
I do find them very useful for trying to find people. *Later*
Directories are often divided into three sections:-
1. Court - a single list of gentry and professionals.
2. Commercial - a single listing all business and trade people.
3. Trades - listed under the different trade headings.
For London (eg in the later Post Office Directories), or other larger
cities, there is sometimes also a 4th Streets Section, which lists the
streets alphabetically and then the names of the people in order of
the house-numbers within each of those streets. This begins only late
in the 19th century, when house-numbering was more common.
In these later Directories, each of the Court and Commercial sections
is often a single list for either a whole county or one of the larger
cities. These lists are VERY useful - I wish they had been done for
the earlier Directories, but it must have been a nightmare to compile
in pre-computer days.
The other useful thing about Directories is their "History and
1. They give you LOCATIONS for each place (with *indexes* for
finding them in the Directory in the first place, as they are usually
listed alphabetically *within the Hundreds* for each county).
2. They give DESCRIPTIONS of industries, schools, churches, scenery.
3. They also give HISTORIES - manorial and otherwise.
For Derbyshire, the three main 19th century Directories I have, all
give detailed locations, descriptions and histories, as well as the
lists of people, for each village covered. They are:-
1. 1846: "History, Gazetteer, and Directory of Derbyshire", by
Samuel Bagshaw, 1846. It has 702 pages, including a full Place index,
and a Subject index.
2. 1857: "History, Gazetteer, and Directory of the County of
Derby", by Francis White & Co, 1857. It has 996 pages, plus the same
3. 1895: "History, Topography and Directory of Derbyshire", by T.
Bulmer & Co, 1895. It has 977 pages and three Indexes: Places,
Subjects, and "Seats and Residences of the Nobility and Gentry". The
last two Directories also include lists of Street -names for each of
the larger towns.
(I am now looking for another Directory around the 1870s period, to
plug my rather large gap between 1857 and 1895.)
Unfortunately, all these Directories are rather expensive, at around
UKP 100 plus, but to my mind they are well worth the money - mine
are in constant use.
Some, as has already been said, are now available on microfiche, or as
reprints. The Pigots Directories for around the 1830s, for example,
have been well copied both ways. I have the Derbs Family History
Society reprint of Pigot's 1835 Commercial Directory of Derbyshire, in
book form, 1976. It is quite a small paperback, and therefore very
cheap. There are only 75 pages of Directory.
Michael Winton has produced a facsimile paperback edition of Pigot's
Commercial Directories for the period of late 1820s to 1830s, for ALL
the counties of England. The Derbyshire one is:
- Pigot & Co's Commercial Directory for 1828/9, for Cheshire,
Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Shropshire. This has 188 pages, 43 of
which are for Derbyshire.
Check out the Derbyshire Family History Society Website to find what
is available for sale from them.
The Website main page for Derbs FHS is URL:-
From there, you will find the Derbs FHS Publications List Index, which
is in four parts: Census, MIs, Publications about Derbyshire, and
Other Publications. This is at URL:-
By scrolling down the section of "Publications about Derbyshire", you
will find 16 different Directories on offer in lovely cheap
*microfiche* format, ranging from Pigot's 1821/2 Derbyshire, to
Kelly's 1942 Buxton Area. They cover the whole county of Derbyshire,
unless stated otherwise. The prices are very reasonable compared with
the books, ranging between UKP 1 and 11.20. The two prices given (in
UKP at the end of each line) are for postage inside UK and for
- 1821-22 PIGOTS [1 Fiche] 1.00, 1.20
- 1823-4 BREWERS [1 Fiche] 1.00, 1.20
- 1827-9 GLOVERS [2 Fiche] 1.75, 2.00
- 1835 PIGOTS [2 Fiche] 1.75, 2.00
- 1850 SLATER'S [2 Fiche] 1.75, 2.00
- 1860 HARRISON'S [5 Fiche] 4.50, 5.75
- 1874 WRIGHT'S (South Derbyshire & places within 12 miles of Derby)
[3 Fiche] 2.50, 2.75
- 1881 KELLY'S [6 Fiche] 7.00, 8.20
- 1887 KELLY'S [9 Fiche] 7.00, 8.20
- 1895 KELLY'S [11 Fiche] 8.50, 9.70
- 1912 KELLY'S [13 Fiche] 10.00, 11.20
- 1917 CHESTERFIELD YEAR BOOK [2 Fiche] 1.75, 2.00
- 1926-27 TRADES PRELIMS [2 Fiche] 1.75, 2.00
- 1932 KELLY'S [13 Fiche] 10.00, 11.20
- 1935 WHIPPLE (DERBY & ADJACENT SUBURBS) [16 Fiche], 13.00, 14.50
- 1942 KELLY'S (BUXTON AREA) [3 Fiche] 2.50, 2.75
Another possible source for such publications is the Bookshop of the
Society of Genealogists in London. Their main Web page is URL:-
The Book Catalogue URL is:-
Here you will find various headings you can click on, such as
- SOG's own publications
- Counties of England
If you click on the latter, then on "Derbyshire", you will see a list
of types of books relating to that county:-
- Directories and Poll Books
- Genealogical Guides
- Local History
Under the first heading you will find the paperback reprint edition of
Pigot's Commercial Directory of 1828/9 for Derbyshire, published by
Michael Winton in 1995, 188 pages, UKP 8.50. You can follow
instructions for buying online (with credit card) if you wish.
Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England
33--[DBY] The Independent Chapel
On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:15:24 EDT, Maureen wrote:
>Received an 1841 marriage certificate recently that stated the
>marriage was at The Independent Chapel in Matlock Bath.
>Does anyone know what this Chapel is, and how would it
>differ from a marriage performed in a Parish Church?
The Matlock Bath Independent Chapel was later known as the Glenorchy
Congregational Chapel at Matlock Bath.
Below, is the entry about this chapel from Derbyshire Record Office
"Guide to Nonconformist Registers", 1999. It is the only Independent
Chapel listed for Matlock Bath.
I have also cross-checked with the National Index of Parish Registers,
Vol 5, Pt 6, Derbyshire, by Cliff Webb, SOG, 1995, p.71, where he too
has only this one Independent Chapel listed for Matlock Bath.
MATLOCK BATH, Congregational
Glenorchy Congregational Chapel, originally Independent. Founded by
Lady Glenorchy in 1785. Also known as Cromford Chapel. Closed and
demolished in 1965.
Microfilm copies of Birth and Baptism Registers from 1785 to 1836 are
held at Derbs Record Office and Salt Lake City, and available for
ordering via local Mormon Family History Libraries. The Record Office
also holds some other (unspecified) original records, which could be
Church Rolls, etc.
Note: Cliff Webb says that the chapel was built in 1777, and also
that the PRO (Public Record Office, at Kew, London) holds some
original records for this chapel, under the ref: RG 4/506.
Here is a summary of some of the information about Nonconformists
given in the Introduction to the Derbyshire Record Office "Guide to
Nonconformist Registers", 1999:-
The Matlock Bath Chapel is one of those known as 'Nonconformists',
which is the general term for members of religious groups other than
the Church of England. 'Dissenters' is another description, because
they disagreed with the Anglican Church, the 'established' or national
religion of England since the time of Henry VIII.
Nonconformity has been part of the religious life of Derbyshire since
the 17th century. William BAGSHAWE, 'Apostle of the Peak' is one of
the best-known in Derbyshire nonconformist history; he was ejected
from the living (of the Anglican Church) at Glossop as a 'Puritan' in
1662, and became a travelling preacher throughout the Peak District
for the rest of his life.
There were hundreds of nonconformist churches and chapels in
Derbyshire in the 19th century, when they were at their peak.
Before 1837, virtually all nonconformists (except Jews and Quakers)
were married in the Church of England, because ceremonies of other
denominations were not legally valid. After 1837, marriages could be
conducted by other authorised people.
When looking at nonconformist records, it is a good idea to look for
other documents than just Registers (which are usually not complete),
as there are often, for example, Church Rolls, Attendance Lists, and
financial records, among their papers. When chapels closed, as many
have in the 20th century, records were often dispersed. Derbyshire
Record Office has tried to find as many as they can for their own
county, but it is rather haphazard. Some have ended up at the Public
Record Office at Kew in London.
As for the style of the Marriage ceremony, it differs from one chapel
to another, but on the whole would usually be less formal than a
Church of England service.
Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England
34--[DBY] Sources for Tenant Farmers
On Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:36:42 -0400, Ann Atherton wrote:
>Are lists of tenants of manors available in the early 1800's? It
>seems as if my ancestor from Repton lived as a tenant on a farm.
Tenant farmers were, and still are, common in England. Many farmers
did not own the land they worked, but farmed it on behalf of a
landowner, or an estate, or an institutional landowner (such as an
Insurance Company, Hospital, University, Church, etc).
A useful source of information on Tenant Farmers (or owner-farmers,
and other householders), are Land Tax returns, usually housed at
County Record Offices. Here is some information about Land Tax taken
from Pauline Saul's useful book: "The Family Historian's Enquire
Within", 5th edition, 1995, published by FFHS (Federation of Family
History Societies), p.133:-
This tax was first introduced about 1692, and was not finally
abolished until the 1950s. The rate was usually 4 shillings in the
pound. The annual lists contain names of owners and tenants of houses
and land, sometimes with names of houses and fields.
These records survive mostly in County Record Offices, in Quarter
Sessions collections, in particular for 1780 to 1832, when the Clerks
of the Peace used the tax lists as indicating those entitled to vote
in Parliamentary elections. County taxpayers' lists for earlier years
survive only rarely, but some boroughs (London, Bristol, etc) have
For just one year, 1798, there is a duplicate set of taxpayers' lists
for the whole of England and Wales (except Flintshire) in the PRO at
Kew, London. Post-1832 lists are of less use, as they omit the
growing number of landowners who had commuted payment. [For this
later period, Electoral Rolls are probably of more use than Land Tax.]
The Gibson Guide booklet, "Land and Window Tax Assessments", by Jeremy
Gibson, Mervyn Medlycott and Dennis Mills, published by FFHS, explains
the purpose and collection of the tax, with a county-by-county list of
surviving records and their location.
[End of quote]
MANORIAL OR ESTATE RECORDS
Another source for Tenant Farmers are Manorial or Estate Records. If
you know on which Manor or Estate a Tenant Farmer worked, then ask the
County Record Office for the Calendar of the records of that
particular Manor or Estate. Work through it until you find something
useful, like a RENT LIST, for example, around the period in which you
are interested, and order that document from the archives. ESTATE
MAPS can also be very informative. If you don't know for whom your
Tenant Farmer worked, then ask the Archivist which Estate owned xxxxx
ENCLOSURE OR TITHE APPORTIONMENTS
Another extremely useful listing of all the inhabitants of a village
in the early 19th century is given on the APPORTIONMENTS (listings of
names with properties) which go with land Enclosures and Tithes.
These are usually late 18th to mid 19th centuries, and list both
Occupants and Owners for each property, along with land sizes. Ask
the staff at your County Record Office for the Tithe or Enclosure
Apportionment for the village in which you are interested. This will
cross-reference to its accompanying large-scale map, usually in
colour and very detailed. TITHE and ENCLOSURE MAPS for any village
are very informative - showing every building and field, and naming
them, with their owners and occupiers being listed on the accompanying
Apportionment, as well as the main owners often being shown on the map
Thurleigh, Bedfordshire, England
35--[OEL] A Sail on the Hyglander in 1822
In early October 1822, Duke Paul Wilhelm, who was twenty-five years old,
sailed to New Orleans, (and returned to Europe in mid-February 1824), to
augment his education in the natural sciences. What follows, is a vivid
account of the Duke’s sailing voyage on the rivers and seas from Hamburg via
England to America in 1822. I include his mention because it gives us a
glimpse of what a voyage would have been like for our ancestors making their
way from Germany to America. They too would pass through German and English
ports to reach their new homes in America. Obvious differences would have
existed between a Duke’s accommodations on the high seas and those of some
poor farmers. Whether in first-class or steerage however, we can appreciate
from the Duke’s account what travel by sail must have been like for all
passengers. Here are some excerpts from his personal diary.
First a little background: “He chose to travel incognito, as Baron von
Hohenberg on a passport given a visa by the American consul at Hamburg, but
like others of his time and more recently, was quickly discovered by
fellow-travelers (and later by American frontiersmen) to be the Duke of
Württemberg.” I wonder if the Duke’s voyage inspired the emigration of
some of our early ancestors?
Duke Paul Wilhelm is the son of Duke Eugen Friedrich Heinrich of Württemberg
and Duchess Louise, (Princess of Stolberg-Godern), and the nephew of King
Friedrich of Württemberg. He was born on July 25, 1797 at Carlsruhe in
Silesia, died on November 25, 1860 and is buried in Stiftsckirche,
Stuttgart. He married Princess Sophie Dorothea Caroline von Thurn und
Taxis on April 17, 1827. They had a son, Maximilian, (1828-1888) born on
September 3, 1828 who followed a military career. As you read his journal,
imagine your ancestors in the hold of a vessel such as the Hyglander, below
the Duke’s first-class accommodations. In the early nineteenth century,
Trans-Atlantic Sea voyage under sail was an adventure for everyone.
And now, his diary:
“Immediately on my arrival at Hamburg during the opening days of October,
1822, I was fortunate in finding a good opportunity to sail for New Orleans,
and so did not have to remain there longer than was necessary to make the
arrangements for my journey, to procure some badly needed additional
scientific instruments, and to repair those that had become defective. I
expected to make the trip on the three-masted Hyglander of New York, which
had the reputation of being a good sailing vessel, and whose most obliging
and well-informed Captain Walsh planned to leave in two weeks. As everyone
knows, little reliance can be put in the announcement of a ship’s probable
date of departure. So many factors occur to postpone a sailing, but the
main reason for the long delays so inconvenient to all passengers is that
the ship’s masters set the sailing date earlier to hasten as much as
possible the loading of their vessel. This time, however, was a rare
exception, for our vessel was ready to sail on the appointed day.
The entire cargo, linen (from Westphalia and Silesia), glass, and various
other manufactured goods, was loaded, and I had all of my belongings put
into my assigned cabin on the fifteenth, the day previous to the departure.
But on the sixteenth, when I was already on board, the wind turned to the
north, preventing our departure, and I returned to shore. The captain had
me called very early on the following day because the wind had changed to
the southeast. However, it blew so faintly until eleven o’clock that it
exerted hardly any noticeable influence on the sails. But the ship weighed
anchor and by means of tow lines and with the aid of other craft was piloted
into the current of the Elbe at noon and placed into position to continue
its course slowly down the river with the help of the sails. Several other
ships moved out with the Hyglander, among them a brig destined for
Port-au-Prince on Santo Domingo. We advanced but slowly until evening and
lost sight of Altona [A suburb of Hamburg, on cliffs of the right bank of
the Elbe, five kilometers from the center of the city] very late.
Captain Walsh, who had remained in town for several hours on business,
arrived on board just as the anchor was being lowered because of approaching
nightfall and because of dense fog. Two pilots were aboard, one from
Hamburg to pilot us through the Elbe into the open sea, and an Englishman
from Dover who was to take us through the North Sea into the English
Channel. Both would have command of the vessel at the moment the ship was
set in motion. Though the Americans are excellent sailors, they rarely
venture to sail the North Sea and the Channel without the help of an English
pilot, especially after the equinox or during the short days of the winter
when the sea is dangerous. The trip from Hamburg to the mouth of the Elbe
was not without difficulties, since one can sail only with a good south or
southeast wind. Very light vessels can sail the Elbe with a slightly
unfavorable wind, but with loaded ships, this is utterly impossible. We
took advantage of ebb tide and the southeast wind, but since the latter was
only very faint on the first day, we moved very slowly down the river. At
Stade [A town west of Hamburg on the Schwinge River, five kilometers from
its confluence with the Elbe] is a sandbank which larger ships can pass over
only at flood tide or at the beginning of ebb tide and with a brisk wind.
Our vessel had the rare luck to pass over this sandbank at fourteen feet of
water, and since it draws thirteen feet I consider it a lucky chance that we
were not delayed any longer. Under average conditions, this sandbank is
believed to be covered by eighteen feet of water, while at ebb tide it is
covered with only eight feet. Sailing at night on the Elbe, as on most
other river systems near the mouth, is not advised, and the cautious sailor
drops anchor at the approach of night, yet this has also many
We were in the vicinity of Gluckstadt at about noon of the eighteenth. The
temperature was 50°, the weather foggy, and the wind blew briskly from the
northeast by east. [Throughout, Duke Paul used the Reaumur temperature
scale, but the translator has changed it to the Fahrenheit scale for
simplification. The former, with a freezing point at zero and a boiling
point at 80°, was widely used in Europe at the time. It was named for the
French physicist René Antoine de Reaumur.] Thus we reached Cuxhaven before
sunset, but had to drop anchor on the roadstead because the wind was
unfavorable to our entering the North Sea. During the night the wind
changed to southwest by west and continued to blow from this direction
uninterruptedly until noon of the twenty-third. I had ample opportunity to
test my patience.
When on the morning of the twentieth countless gulls congregated about our
ship and even some dogfish stuck their heads out of the water, the sailors
concluded that bad weather was coming. At about noon it arrived in the form
of a violent southwest wind, accompanied by rain, increasing during the
night to such fury that we feared the anchor cable would snap. Toward
morning of the twenty-first the storm subsided somewhat, ending in isolated
wind gusts, and finally by evening actual calm prevailed. This storm
offered a foretaste of many dangerous storms to which I was subjected during
the trip. The stay at the roadstead of Cuxhaven could have tested even a
sailor least inclined to be seasick, because the ship, riding at anchor and
stripped of all sails, yielded to every movement of the sea with an
irregular and rolling motion. Indeed, all of the passengers except myself
lay miserably ill. I attributed my wellbeing to having previously made
several sea voyages and to the fortunate faculty of not being affected by
On the morning of the twenty-second, with the beginning of the first moon
quarter, the wind turned to the north, then to the northeast, and finally to
the east and southeast. At the same time dense fog appeared and we could
not think of setting sail. On the twenty-third, thick fog again prevailed,
but with wind blowing briskly from the southeast the fog disappeared at
about noon, and the anchor could be raised. Toward five o’clock in the
evening we were opposite Helgoland and soon lost the lighthouse of the
island from sight. That night we were in the deep waters of the North Sea
itself. After midnight the violent southeast wind turned into a storm and
continued the entire day of the twenty-fourth, driving the vessel swiftly
towards the coast of England. At noon of the twenty-fifth, we were at 53°
42´-north latitude and 2° 36´-east longitude from London. The wind turned
to southwest by south and decreased very rapidly in velocity so that we were
The sea was very rough during the entire night, while the wind again began
to blow from the southwest by west. At about noon of the twenty-sixth it
increased again in intensity, becoming a storm. When that day we reached
the heights of Northforeland [on the east coast of England, north of Dover
and at the eastern approach to the Thames estuary] another calm set in,
occasionally interrupted by single gusts of wind, creating a most
uncomfortable situation for us near the English coast. Nevertheless, we
luckily approached the mouth of the Channel, and at about five o’clock that
evening were only one nautical mile from Dover, so that despite the
approaching darkness, one could distinctly see the houses and the activity
in the harbor. Our English pilot left us close to the town. Despite the
rough sea we were soon surrounded by a large number of boats offering all
kinds of foodstuff for sale. These products were, however, so expensive on
the English coast that one is wise to provide himself with all necessary
items before departure. Because of the cool weather our captain had
procured a considerable supply of fresh beef in Cuxhaven, and this was
sufficient for three weeks for the cabin table.
Nothing of importance occurred during the night and our ship sailed on in
the Channel, but in the morning the wind turned again to the northwest. We
were fortunate to reach the Dungeness roadstead, [on the south coast of
Kent, eleven miles east of Rye], where we anchored on good bottom. A few
English naval officers came aboard and spent over half an hour in my cabin.
They most kindly offered their services to attend to any business I might
wish to transact onshore, and accepting this courteous offer, I wrote
several letters, which they took care of. In the vicinity of Dungeness the
current of the Channel towards the northeast was already very noticeable.
This has a decided influence on westbound sailings, making the journay very
The sky was only slightly clouded and the sun rose a bloody red. Towards
evening the first fierce currents of air began and towards midnight the
storm broke in its full fury from the southwest. Our most painstakingly
prepared and excellent vessel withstood well the first violent attack of the
storm, but even so lay on its side several times. We feared we would have
to cut away the masts or see the ship take water. Luckily the Hyglander
always righted herself again and with great dexterity cut through the most
threatening waves, often entirely submerged when they broke over us. Many
articles were washed off the decks, among them all of our poultry, a dire
necessity on a sea voyage, and the sides of the vessel were greatly damaged.
A wave damaged my cabin door at the very outset of the storm and the cabin
was deluged, so that I had the greatest difficulty in keeping my books,
papers, and instruments dry and undamaged from sea water.”
36--[DBY] Writ addressed to the Sheriff of Derbyshire
I found this while searching for books for the Archive CD Books project,
[ELIZABETH I (1533-1603, from 1558 Queen of England)]
Writ addressed in her name to the Sheriff of Derbyshire
(Thomas Griseley), in Latin with transcription and translation, to warn
James, Thomas and Francis Barlow ('Barley' throughout the document), that
they are bound by their concord with Gilbert [Talbot, 7th] Earl of
SHREWSBURY , (1553-1616), over "the manor of Barlow ... 50 messuages
[dwellings], 20 cottages, three watermills for grain, 50 gardens, 50
orchards, 1000 acres of [arable] land, 500 acres of meadow, 1000 acres of
pasture, 600 acres of wood, 1000 acres of heath and scrub, 1000 acres of
moor, and lands worth £10 rent and common pasture", in Barlow Lees, Dunston,
Dronfield, Chesterfield and Stavely, (all rich in coal or iron), and unless
they have performed it or given "triple security for his claim", they are to
be summoned to appear before the Justices [of the Common Pleas] at
Westminster on the day after Trinity Sunday, the Sheriff to make sure this
writ and the summons are in court, fee paid 20s to the farmer of fines,
vellum, 1¾" x 11¾", Westminster, 5th May 1592 (Translation) Elizabeth by the
Grace of God, of England, France and Ireland Queen, Defender of the Faith,
etc., to the Sheriff of Derbyshire, greeting: Give notice to James Barlow
['Barley' throughout the document] Esq., Thomas Barlow, Gent., and Francis
Barlow, Gent., that according to law and without delay they perform the
agreement with Gilbert Earl of Shrewsbury made between them concerning the
manor of Barlow with its appurtenances and 50 dwellings, 20 cottages, 3
water mills for grain, 50 gardens, 50 orchards, 1000 acres of arable land,
500 acres of meadow, 1000 acres of pasture, 600 acres of wood, 1000 acres of
heath and scrub, 1000 acres of moor, and lands worth £10 rent and common
pasture for all sorts of animals with its appurtenances, in Barlow, Barlow
Lees, Dunston, Dronfield, Chesterfield and Staveley: And unless they have
given and the said Earl has received triple security for his proved claim
then you are to summon by good summoners the said James Thomas and Francis
that before our Justices at Westminster on the day after Trinity Sunday they
show why they have not given it: And you are to produce there the summons
and this writ. Witness myself at Westminster the 5th May in the 34th year of
our Reign; for 20s. paid to the farmer of the fines of our Lady the Queen by
virtue of the Queen's Warrant. Meredyth.
Elizabeth dei gratia Anglie Francie et Hibernie Regina fidei defensor etc Vicecomiti
Derbie salutem: Precipe Jacobo Barley Armigero Thome Barley Generoso et
Francisco  Barley Generoso quod iuste et sine dilatione teneant Gilberto
Comiti Salopie conventionem inter eos factam de manerio de Barley cum
pertinenciis ac de quinquaginta mesuagiis  viginti cotagiis tribus
molendinis aquaticis granaticis quinquaginta gardinis quinquaginta pomagiis
mille acris terre quingentis acris prati mille acris  pasture sexcentis
acris bosci mille acris jampnorum et bruere mille acris more decem libratis
redditus et communia pasture pro omnimodis animalibus cum pertinenciis in
Barley  Barley Lees Dunstone Dronefeld Chesterfeld et Staveley: Et nisi
fecerunt et predictus Comes fecerit ter securationem de clamio suo probato
tunc summoneas per bonos summonitores predictos  Jacobum Thomam et
Franciscum quod sint coram Justiciariis nostris apud Westmonasterium in
Crastino sancte Trinitatis ostensuri quare non fecerint: Et habeas ibi
summonitionem et hoc breve  Teste me ipsa apud Westmonasterium quinto die
maij Anno Regni tricesimo quarto; pro viginti solidis solutis firmario
finium domine Regine virtute Warranti Regine Meredyth
The Earl's step-mother
was the famous 'Bess of Hardwick', (1518-1608), who inherited Hardwick
from her father. At 14 she married John Barlow of Barlow , who died not
long after. She persuaded her second husband, Sir Willam Cavendish, to sell
his land in the South and buy Chatsworth . Her third was Sir William St.
Loe, and her fourth, George, 6th Earl of Shrewsbury, with whom she acted as
keeper of Mary Queen of Scots. We see here her hand in securing her first
husband's estates, settled (like her second and third's) on her and her
heirs. (Gilbert married his stepsister Mary Cavendish, but had no sons).
With on the verso the signatures of: Sir Edward Stanhope , (c.1547-1608),
Commissioner of the Fines Office from 1589 (signature a little rubbed). For
his many offices, see P.W. Hasler, House of Commons, 1558-1603, III, 1981,
pp. 437-439. For his signature see BL Egerton 2713, ff.303, 305 (1593).
Thomas Dudley ('Duddeley') and William Lambarde , (1536-1601, the famous
antiquary and topographer of Kent), two of the deputies in the Alienations
Office, where fees such as the 20s were collected for writs of covenants and
for licences to alienate land held of the Crown, etc.. See R.M. Warnicke,
'William Lambarde', 1973, pp. 87ff., and for his signature BL Lansdowne 54,
f.172 (1587), and 65, f.191 (1590). Thomas Griseley , Armiger (Esq.), the
Sheriff of Derbyshire.
The cost for this document, out of our reach at 425 GBP. Whew!
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
37--[DBY] 1881 Census missing entries
On 28 Apr 2001, at 11:12, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
> Has anyone else found that entries are missing from the 1881 census?
There should be no surprise at the absence of individuals, streets,
or even larger areas from any census. In addition, any transcription
of the originals can introduce another layer of errors and omissions.
The 1881 Census is nothing more than a transcript/index. Primary
documents must always be consulted.
That said, the primary census records also have numerous errors.
One of my texts here advises of an entire London suburb
overlooked by the enumerators in one census. All of us have seen
enumerator errors that include misstated ages, misspelt christian
and surnames, misspelt places of birth or residence, imprecise
addresses and more. I have multiple illustrations of this from every
census, not just 1881.
In 1890, Ogle, the Superintendent of Statistics at the GRO said of
the enumerators: "on the whole rather a poor lot ...very
unsatisfactory...their mere handwriting and the general aspect of
their work showed that a great many of them were very illiterate
men"(this of course before women were allowed to be enumerators
which no doubt overcame all these problems from, I think 1891
> I've contacted the LHS and they so there are no addresses missing; yet
> all the people at 1-6 Wilson Street are nowhere to be found.
I doubt that the LHS would even know - and probably not
acknowledge any omissions (sorry for treading on inevitable toes).
In any event, if they (or any of the numerous volunteers involved in
the 1881 census project) accurately copied, an incomplete and
inaccurate record from the Census Enumerator Books, how would
they even know if a problem existed. Rubbish in equals rubbish
out. I seem to recall reading that in the first published versions of
the LDS 1881 CD ROM census, they even confused Sunderland
and Sutherland - this corrected subsequently,in revised editions for
the poorly treated counties. Having todate no research interests in
either county, I have not sought to correct my copy of the 1881 CD
ROM transcript, especially as it involves I gather some further,
albeit, modest cost.
> Thanks for any help or clues.
If the enumerators could have been confused by the boundaries of
their area, it might be worth while looking closely at all the
adjoining Piece Numbers. However, I fear the street was just
overlooked by the enumerator. This would have been a not
uncommon problem in the urbanised/industrialised setting, with its
system of courtyards and short streets, many with indirect access.
Pat McQuin in Adelaide, South Australia.
38--[OEL] Transcription of large document 
In message <email@example.com>, AlanDell@aol.com writes
> Saturday 5 May 2001 09:20 GMT Daylight Time
> Advice sought, please -
> on Transcription methods for large document.
> The arrival of a photocopy from the PRO poses a problem on
> how to transcribe it.
> It is a Chancery ' complaining' document dated 1675 and my
> method will need to be somewhat different to Indentures,
> when extracts, will do [ Names, property descriptions etc. ]
> It needs to be fully transcribed as it is a pivotal point in the history
> of the Trust and the context is important.
> It measures [ Landscape] 28" across x 17" deep The last 4"
> on the right are rather dirty from the document being folded back.
> There are 48 lines to transcribe.
Just from the physical point of view, you are probably going to need to
lean over and peer closely, So invest in a piece of thickish transparent
plastic large enough to cover the whole thing side to side. Although
polythene should never be left in contact with a photocopy (or anything
else) for long, in short bursts, this is OK and will probably be what is
available, The idea is two fold - not to smudge or spill on the copy
(which you will presumably want to display with the translation) and to
use the edge of the plastic to mark the line you are working on. It is
surprising how easy it is to start on one line and, a couple of feet
later, slip down to the next one. The alternative is a piece or several
pieces of plain white card, which marks the line but prevents you from
seeing what is coming.
There will be a number of phrases in the document which are likely to
repeat, so if part of one comes in the blurred section at first, hope
that it will come up agaoin on the clearer bit lower down.
The first two or three words may be in very fancy and archaic for the
time script - but they will be conventional phrases.
There will be abbreviations, like Compt/Coplt for complainant, or Deft
for deforciant, exaiat with curls on top for Examinant, Orr for Orator
and so on.
Use 'Reading Old Handwriting' for alphabets of the period really used,
not the deisred court hand. If you get stuck, send me a photocopy of the
section which is giving trouble (or hand copy exactly if it is right in
Author of the McLaughlin Guides for family historians
Secretary Bucks Genealogical Society
38--[DBY] Tracing your Medieval Ancestors
I attended an open day at our local genealogy Society here on the Gold
Coast, Australia last Saturday and one of the guest speakers was Michael
Gandy. He is the President of London and Middlesex Family History Society.
Boy what a speaker, if you ever get the chance to hear him go, he is
I made some notes on his last topic 'Tracing your Medieval Ancestors'. For
those not fortunate enough to be there, here are a few ideas/notes on where
to look for those lost ancestors.
LAY SUBSIDES. Lists head of household paying tax. There are good lists in
the Public Record Office in the 1520-40.
RECORDS OF GENTRY AND THEIR ESTATES. Who were the important people in the
area?. Were your ancestors mentioned in personal papers i.e. Blacksmith,
carpenters, trades people used by the head of the estate. Are there rentals
associated with the estate, leases, or lists of obligations.
MUSTERS. Young men fit for military service. There are good lists for many
counties in the 1520's.
COURT RECORDS. Legal tussels, records left in the PRO. Is your ancestor
called as a witness. Check the indexes by place not just by name.
INQUISITIONS POST MORTEMS (inquiries after death) These are not the same as
Coroners Inquests, which is another source of info. Here people from the
area gave evidence as to what lands they owned. These are rock solid
evidence for a 'gentry tree' but they also provide evidence that our
ordinary ancestors were alive in a particular area at a particular time and
of sufficient credibility to be asked.
MANOR COURT RECORDS. These are the Holy Grail. They are concerned with land
and if we are lucky even our most ordinary ancestors can be traced. Example.
The son is admitted to the farm after his mother dies. The mother was
admitted to the farm after her father died, father got it from his parents.
Every court session might detail an individual and record their relationship
with another member of his/her family. People may be listed for breaking the
rules of the manor. Reaping at the wrong time, washing up stream, marrying
outside the manor, letting the pigs loose, All evidence that the surname is
present in the area. Much medieval land was farmed cooperatively by the
whole community, and individuals had dozens of strips in the good and bad
part of the manor. In earlier times our ancestors may have been tied to the
manor, unable to leave without paying fines. During the 1400's most
remaining bondsmen became free and the records of this may themselves
provide evidence of a tree of 3-4 generations.
CHURCH RECORDS. Religious Institutions important employers. There are
extensive records of the priests and nuns being displaced when the religious
houses were closed in the 1530's. They all got pensions which were still
being paid in the 1570's The pension records say what happened to them,
where they went, and whether they were married.
FEET OF FINES. These quaintly named documents record land transfers and are
valuable as any other land deed. Many court records relating to land
disputes were in fact collusive suits designed to get the change of
TOWN RECORDS. Towns contained many 1000's of people and the records of town
government are often full and detailed.
Well that's your lot for today, happy hunting.
40--[DBY] The lacemaking industry
Dear Michael and other listers interested in lacemakers and their trade,
I can't believe how many queries I've had about lacemakers, though perhaps I
shouldn't be surprised as Derbyshire had many workers in the hand-made lace
industry and was very close to the centre of the machine-made industry. I
hope that those who aren't interested will pardon this posting. My excuse
is that it is part of our families' history and culture.
I think I've responded to everyone but, just in case I didn't, here is a
slightly amended version of a fairly general account that I sent earlier to
Sue Grundy who had asked whether lacemaking was a cottage or factory
industry.. Sorry Sue - you have to read it twice !
Finally - I goofed with the URL for the Lacemakers Circle. It should read
http://www.lacemakers-circle.org.uk We've recently changed addresses and
I'm still getting used to it. This site will, however, will tell you mostly
about lacemaking today.
Sue - You're right on both counts.
Hand-made lace was a cottage industry, without a doubt. From its early
beginnings in the 16th century it was made by women and small children in
the home. Children learned from the age of about 4 or 5 and would work the
whole of the day, from first light. Only the Education Acts of 1870 and
1891 put an end to it. Before that, only the most basic of education was
available to children. Some went to lace schools where learning to make
lace was compulsory, learning to form their letters and numbers was
optional. It also depended to a certain extent, on whether the parents
could afford it or thought it necessary for their children to be educated.
Their cottages would be damp (ideal conditions for the thread being used -
linen first, cotton came in much later), and dark. Groups of people would
work around a single candle for economy. The light would be placed in the
centre of a small stool and anywhere up to six or eight people would each
have a globe of water between them and the candle to throw light on their
work. (Incidentally, we had a power cut one evening when one of my sons was
studying for A-levels. I gave him a candle and a milk bottle filled with water to
work with, which he did without any problems. He thought I'd totally
flipped though, when I first suggested it !) The workers' cottages were
also likely to be unheated whilst they were working because smoke from any
fire would discolour the lace. The payment for the workers was appalling
and in spite of the hours worked they had a very meagre existence.
The machine lace industry, which started in Nottingham, was carried out in
factories. If you've discovered mention of a factory in your research, your
ancestors probably were involved in this. There is a Lace Museum in
Nottingham though I can't for the life in me think of the address. I'm sure
your local Tourist Information Office would be able to help you with this
and probably get some literature on your behalf. At one time there was an
inexpensive paper-back book available, published by Nottingham City
Council called 'Nottingham Lace'.
Lace workers from Nottingham were instrumental in founding the lace industry
in Calais. Many of them married French girls and settled in France. If you
ever go to Calais, you can still see English names over the shops and on
brass plates outside offices. These people are the descendants of the
original workers sent over to teach the French how to weave lace. And, of
course, Nottingham lace is still world-famous.
I hope this will put a little flesh on your ancestors bones, and hasn't
bored you too much.
41--[DBY] Grave Headstones being laid flat for insurance reasons
I expect that some of the local listers will already have seen the article
in tonight's (Friday 15 June) Derby Evening Telegraph concerning the
gravestones in St. Matthew's churchyard, Overseal. It appears that the
insurance company for the church are insisting that the larger stones are
laid flat for safety reasons, i.e. fear that they may "fall" on visitors.
Having seen how quickly a headstone which has been laid flat can become
grassed over I am concerned that these stones will become unreadable in a
few years time and completely disappear soon afterwards. As it is often the
oldest headstones which are the biggest, and hence the most likely to fall,
we are going to lose a great deal of genealogical information if these stones
cannot be recorded very quickly.
I know that in the past there has been a lot of concern over damage caused
to gravestones by the over enthusiastic cleaning by genealogists but with
those laid flat this may become the lesser of two evils.
42--[ENG-VILLAGES] Another Source of Information for Genealogists
This was sent to us and we thought it may be of interest to other lists as
Chris and Caroline
It gives me lots of pleasure to announce that the Archive CD Books
Project has set up a scheme of co-operation with the Family Records
Centre in London (That's an arm of the Public Record Office).
The FRC in London has millions of visitors each year... all wanting
to search stuff for their family history. All wanting to leaf through
the collection of old books. That presents a problem, as the old books
are getting so much heavy use that some of them are starting to
literally disintegrate, although some have been rebound (several times!).
However its the pages that are really starting to suffer.
So.... we have come to an arrangement where the books are to be
scanned and put onto CD, (at no cost to the FRC) and then visitors will be
able to view them on screen instead. (We shall also be supplying CDs of
the large existing range to them too). The books that need it will be renovated
professionally, and we at Archive CD Books will also be
paying for that work to be done. We expect that some of the renovations
will cost between one and two hundred pounds per book.
All of the CDs will then be released in the range of the Archive CD
Books Project, at anything between GBP 8.50 and 14.00 depending on
the particular book. And of course, anyone in the world will be able to
own their own copy of these extremely rare and valuable books, that they
would otherwise never have had the opportunity of seeing! (But of
course, it is the sale of the CDs that will actually pay for the
scanning work to be done for the FRC, and also pay for the book renovations).
We are starting with the collection of county directories, as they
are the ones that get the hardest wear and tear (literally!) at the FRC.
We are working on approximately 10 books per week to begin with, and
that may step up in the near future. The first ones have already
been done now... and the books on CD released, so the project is well
under way. I'll be trying to keep the costs of CDs right down to the
minimum, in line with all the others in the existing range. From GBP 8.50
plus post & packing. One of the best ways of keeping costs down is for
some serious "word of mouth" advertising of the Archive CD Books Project
in genealogy circles, reviews, etc. It has worked so far!
Anyone who buys one of the CD Books is genuinely contributing towards
the preservation of these old and rare books, not just the ones that
we buy from dealers and give away to museums and libraries, etc. but
also those that are part of projects such as the latest ones from the
Family Records Centre in London.
It feels good! Very good.
43--[DBY] Alias names
This subject often crops up on this list so here are some answers:
"Entries for illegitimate children in parish registers before 1813 normally name
only the mother. They often contain an additional term of disapprobation of the
child, such as 'base', 'bastard', 'B', 'byeblow', 'chanceling', 'filius/filia',
'unmulierly begotten', 'populi/vulgi/terrae/,eretrocos', 'illegal', 'lamebegot',
'lovebegot', 'merrybegot', 'nothus', 'spurius', 'viciatus', 'scapegoat',
'uniuscuiusque', and even 'dratsab'. Sometimes it is the mother who is
implicitly blamed by being referred to as 'fornicator', 'adulterer' or 'harlot'.
It is not uncommon for the name of the reputed (or 'supposed') father or fathers
to be given also, especially after an Act of 1634 which required the recording
of the names of both parents at baptism. In the seventeenth century an
illegitimate child might carry an 'alias' in his or her surname when an adult, a
practice which survived into the nineteenth century. Thus John Smith alias
Jones would have a father and mother who were not married to each other, one
called Smith and the other Jones. John Smith alias Jones might then grow up,
marry and have children who themselves would carry the surname Smith alias
Jones, and occasionally so might their children. (The sins of the
grandfather!!!)There seems to have been no strongly applied convention that one
or the other should come first. In more modern times illegitimacy has been the
origin of some hyphenated surnames.
An alias, often abbreviated to 'als' in the registers did not always denote
illegitimacy, however. It has also been used on marriage, or on the remarriage
of a widow to denote 'formerly'; to recognise changes of name, including some
following immigration; to signify a common-law marriage; to differentiate
between different holders of common surnames; to acknowledge a personal
inheritance from outside the family; and to indicate stepchildren or fostered
children, often in order to preserve rights inherited from their birth family;
occasionally, to indicate an occupation; or to indicate a commonly used nickname
or occupational name for the individual concerned. There are many aliases which
suggests that Roman Catholics were in the habit of using them for security
during their years of persecution. Discovering the reason for an alias is not
straigntforward and each case has to be treated on its merits. Even where
illegitimacy was the cause, there is no rule for whether the father's or the
mother's name was given first, and there are cases in which the individuals
changed them round on different occasions."
Here endeth an abridged extraction from The Family Tree Detective by Colin D.
Chy an Gof Guesthouse - Penzance
(CADFS Mem No 525)
44--[DBY] Rents of Duke of Norfolk, Devonshire, Rutland, etc.
> #4 Fw: [DBY] Rents of Duke of Norfolk ["Elizabeth Newbery" (E.Newbery@bti)]
Hello Liz and DBYGEN list,
Getting access to any Duke's Muniment or records room
can be a very difficult and involved process,
even for professional historians and researchers.
(I'm not a profession historian, I'm a programmer whose hobby is history and genealogy)
It seems you have to know exactly what you are looking for
and have to a friend who is a good friend of the family (really!).
I do not know any hobbyist who has had access to Chatsworth or Belvior,
and I too would like to know anyone who has had access.
(My Blackwells had dealings with the Manners family, later Dukes of Rutland.)
Last I knew (1993) neither the library nor the muniment room
is open to the public (at Chatsworth or Belvior) nor do they have library staff.
Before asking to search private archives be certain to search public archives first
and in your application letter to a private archive LIST all the public
archives you've searched, what you have found and not found.
Here are two samples of a typical application process
I've been to both Folger and Huntington for 1 day each with no results.
(after business trips to DC and LA, while taking a vacation day).
Many old muniments have been deposited at local record offices.
which are much easier to access, and are more like public libraries.
http://www.hmc.gov.uk/mdr/england.htm only parts of Yorkshire, etc. is available
The Nottingham Record office has a large collection from the Duke of Portland
who was a younger son of a Duke of Devonshire
These papers are calendared as DDP papers (Deposits of the Duke of Portland)
Note the calendar or catalog of each collection in not online
only the lists of collections of documents.
Nottingham Record Office (aka Archive):
NRA 5959 Cavendish-Bentinck family, Dukes of Portland: estate papers
Reference DD.P (I copied 10+ pages from the DDP48 calendar).
NRA 16237 Manners family, Barons Manners: estate papers
(I think these had records to 1900).
Reference DD.MN (I think these were from the Belvior Muniment room)
http://www.hmc.gov.uk/nra/searches/regdocs.asp?LR=157 ********** see this first!
(lists all the collections calendared(cataloged) at MANY archives.)
Sheffield Record Office:
NRA 839 Fitzalan-Howard family, Dukes of Norfolk: Yorks, Notts and Derbys estate papers
Accession ACM (at Sheffield Record Office) << might be here Liz ********
NRA 7871 Bagshawe collection, incl. Eyre of Hassop, Derbys, family and estate
Reference Bag C (I have copied most of this catalog, copyright owned by the Crown)
NRA 8856 Bagshawe family of Oakes-in-Norton, Derbys: family and estate papers
Reference OD (Bagshaws and Jackson collected other peoples
NRA 41254 Arthur Jackson, antiquary: Yorkshire MS collections
Reference JC (had Derbyshire Peak District material)
(some record offices have card indices of names found in collections,
giving the collection names and document accession ID numbers)
NRA 30024 Fitzalan-Howard family, Dukes of Norfolk: Norfolk and Suffolk estate
at Norfolk Record Office via
http://www.hmc.gov.uk/ARCHON/ARCHON.HTM ********* source look here.
Then you go to the record archive office,
look at the calendar (a catalog) of the papers in a collection
and ask for a few that you want to look at.
This is a very time consuming process, but a great learning experience.
Read the descriptive calendars/catalogs during your hour+ wait for documents.
Check the Sheffield archives which has a lot of Derbyshire material
and the Litchfield RO
It all depends on where and when you are researching,
and you should have stated that in your query.
Before ramdomly searching archives I recommend reading
The Derbyshire Gentry in the Fifteenth Century.
By Susan M.Wright. Hardbound, 267 pages, pub.1983
available from the Derbyshire Record Society
and study its bibliography and notes, it tells where the author found
her records. That is how I found out where to search for my Blackwells.
It is now much easier with the internet, but still vital to study
professional bibliographies in books like Susan Wrights.
Also check the bibliography in
The Derbyshire Lead Industry in the Sixteenth Century
By David Kiernan. 1989. pub DRS. which I also recommend.
I also recommend joining the DRS (note the member discounts).
Reading the notes and bibliographies of books and thesis
which are on the area or subjects of your research,
teaches you where to find source material,
and saves a lot of time ramdomly searching archives.
Some muniments were bought by Americans (before it was illegal to export them)
and are in American libraries, museums, etc.
And at the Derbyshire Record Office in Matlock
http://www.hmc.gov.uk/nra/searches/regdocs.asp?LR=26 NRA catalogs
a few items:
NRA 571 Cavendish family, Barons Chesham: deeds and papers (various counties)
NRA 19305 Cavendish family, Dukes of Devonshire: lead mining accounts
NRA 10475 Chandos-Pole-Gell family of Hopton Hall, Derbys and Newnham Hall,
Northants: family and estate papers
Reference D258 (I'll need to check this one someday.)
and this looks interesting
NRA 19306 Derbyshire lead mines (incl JH Rieuwerts and British Speleological
Reference 1154G 1289B
NRA 13701 Deserted Mediaeval Village Research Group: papers
NRA 16274 Dethick deeds and papers
NRA 20874 Duchy of Lancaster: Derbyshire estate papers
Reference 1673Z (a big collections, some of which is published)
NRA 22671 Eyre family of Hassop Hall: family and estate papers
NRA 38151 FitzHerbert family, baronets, of Tissington Hall: corresp and papers
NRA 4879 FitzHerbert family, baronets, of Tissington Hall: family and estate
Reference 239 (Nicholas Blackwell was a lawyer for a family of this name in
And then under Cavendish family in Matlock's Derbyshire Record Office:
(start of cut and paste from above web page) -------------
Cavendish family, Dukes of Devonshire: Chatsworth and Hardwick Hall
c1245-19th cent : deeds, family and estate papers and records rel to
Trustees of the Chatsworth Settlement
NRA 20594 Cavendish
see HMC Principal family and estate collections A-K, 1996 [17a]
1707-1836 : estate papers arising from Barker family's stewardship
Reference : IVA
NRA 7871 Bagshawe Coll
see HMC Principal family and estate collections A-K, 1996 [17e]
1729-1928 : estate papers <<< ********** another place to look Liz.
Chesterfield Public Library
NRA 9187 Chesterfield Lib
see HMC Principal family and estate collections A-K, 1996 [17c]
1750-1875 : leadmining accounts
Derbyshire Record Office
Reference : 1288M
NRA 19305 Cavendish
see HMC Principal family and estate collections A-K, 1996 [17b]
17th-19th cent : Derbys mineral accounts and related papers
Derbyshire Record Office
Reference : D1289 B/ L 183, 245
NRA 19306 Derby mines
see HMC Principal family and estate collections, addenda
1765-68 : High Peak rental
Derbyshire Record Office
Reference : D 4458/4
see HMC Principal family and estate collections, addenda
1783-92 : Staffs copper mining and smelting account
NRA 16699 Cavendish
see HMC Principal family and estate collections A-K, 1996 [17d]
I think I've seen a book on this collection anbd the next one too.
some industrial archeology society published it. DCB.
1841-43 : account book rel to Ecton copper mine
Derbyshire Record Office
Reference : D5376
NRA 8918 Derbyshire RO misc
1797-1888 : Cavendish and Compton Cavendish family wills and settlements
Derbyshire Record Office
Reference : D 480
NRA 8918 Derbyshire RO misc
9 records noted. (end of cut and paste)-------------------------
It just goes on and on and on ....
The Chatsworth muniment room must be almost empty. 8-) (smilie)
Liz and others who visit record offices,
PLEASE do report
your experiences and what you found or did not find.
Note that records are often divided up and deposited at the
record office or library nearest the lands that the records are about.
http://www.usigs.org/library/books/buk.shtml online library and links.
http://www.usigs.org/library/blackwell/blql1483.htm My research project,
which I have not have time for in the last 2 years.
45--[DBY] The Pentrich Revolution
For those who are interested:
The Pentrich Revolution
There had been a downturn in the economic fortunes of the district after the
Napoleonic Wars leading to dissatisfaction amongst the working class. Employment
was difficult to obtain, many lost their jobs and those in work scarcely made
enough to cover their rent, let alone feed their families. This was coupled by
an extremely poor summer in 1816 resulting in the failure of crops and food
shortages. The worst hit were the framework knitters, whose trade depended on
the whims of fashion and who also had to pay a rent on their frame to continue
their livelihood. A framework knitter at that time earned about eight shillings
a week and worked a fourteen hour day.
Pentrich, in Derbyshire, is a village close to Ripley, Butterley and Riddings
and served as the cradle for an attempted revolt. There was much talk of
revolution around the country at that time and many local societies met to
formate plans for the overthrow of the Crown. The leaders in Pentrich were
William Oliver, Thomas Bacon, William Turner and Isaac Ludlum. Oliver was, in
fact, a government spy and incited the leaders to engage in a revolt in order to
manufacture evidence against the local society and justify himself to his
superiors. He led them to believe that the revolution would be on a national
Jeremiah Brandreth, who was supposed to have military experience, was recruited
to lead the men and on Monday the 9th June 1817, about fifty men from Pentr8ich,
Alfreton and South Wingfield, armed with pikes and guns, assembled at Wingfield
Park at midnight. They began their march on Nottingham, calling at houses on the
way demanding arms and men. At one house Brandreth shot and killed a servant,
The men marched through Codnor and Langley Mill and as dawn broke the column was
about two hundred strong. On reaching Eastwood they stopped at the Sun Inn to
fortify themselves with ale.
The Sun Inn
The village of Eastwood had beem boarded up and the residents hid themsmelves in
High Park Wood. Morale was flagging until the party was misinformed by a courier
that Nottingham had already fallen, and so encouraged, the men resumed their
march on the city.
Stopping at each alehouse on the way along Nottingham Road the men moved slowly
toward Giltbrook and as it began to rain on the intoxicated rabble morale began
to flag again. Meanwhile, Lancelot Rolleston, the magistrate, had ridden to
Nottingham to warn the authorities who promptly despatched a small party of the
fifteenth hussars. On encountering the soldiers at Giltbrook the revolutionaries
collapsed and scattered in all directions to avoid capture. The military persued
them and encountered a second force of revolutionaries near what is now Edward
Road at Hilltop. A number were taken prisoner, including the leaders. Brandreth
escaped to Bulwell but was later given up for a fifty pound reward.
Brandreth, Turner and Ludlum were charged with high treason and sentenced to
death by beheading, which was carried out on the 7th november, 1817. The
incidence of the Pentrich Revolution is important in national history as the
last of the Peasants Revolts to take place in England.
The men were brought to Derby and Brandreth, Turner & Ludlum were charged with
and found guilty of High Treason. This was despite a spirited defence by Thomas
Denman who was later to become a Lord Chief Justice of England.
The three men were sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered, although the
drawing and quartering were later commuted and they were instead hanged until
dead and then beheaded.
Interestingly enough, three months before their execution on November 7th, John
Brown, Thomas Jackson, George Boothe and John King were hamged for setting fire
to hay and corn stacks at South Wingfield, the self-same residence as William
Turner and Isaac Ludlum. It is more than likely that if still alive they would
have taken part in the Pentrich Revolution.
Brown, Jackson, Boothe and King were convicted largely on the evidence of Thomas
Hopkinson. Hopkinson had taken part in the crime, but when apprehended in
Chesterfield on a charge of horse stealing, he turned King's Evidence on his
counterparts and their fate was sealed.
46--[DBY] 1821 census
On 20 Jul 2001, at 9:53, J & G Brinks wrote:
> Does someone out there have the 1821 Census for Nottingham? I can't
> figure out where John CARR, and his family were living. Maybe this
> would give me a starting point? I'd really appreciate a look-up.
> Thank you, Joyce
While official censuses exist from 1801, they tended only to give
rise to aggregate figures for a locality, rather than detailed
household information. This continues up to and including the
Where any census detail has survived for the period 1801-1831, it
tends to be by chance than design.
I believe all extant 1801-1831 censuses for Notts have been
published by the NFHS, and I have them here. To the best of my
knowledge, there is nothing left for Nottingham itself. You would
find, say Radford (1821 only), and a scattering of other
towns/villages elsewhere in the County. The level of detail in these
fragments of surviving pre 1841 official censuses does vary. Most
provide only the head of household by name, with other details
limited to occupation (if you are lucky), the numbers of males and
females in the household, and sometimes a breakup of the
household by age ranges.
There are probably at best 30 surviving pre 1841 official census
fragments for bits of Notts County still extant and you have to be
very lucky to find that one of these covers an area of interest.
There are some unofficial censuses, pre 1841, but I do not know of
any that cover a part of Nottingham. The ones I have for various
places, such as Wollaton, are not detailed and do not seem to be
comprehensive (that is, they do not pick up all familes), and tend
not to name individual family members.
Pat McQuin in Adelaide, South Australia.